Sun, 2 August 2009 The Gamma Quadrant endures most notoriously bad episode of DS9! In a rare move, we alll give the the episode the same rating! The episode includes the worst of everything: bad hair, bad acting, horrible sets. An episode so bad it will add a new word to your vocabulary: allamaraine! Comments[4] |
Hey guys. My wife and I just watched through all of DS9 together a few months ago, and so we've really been enjoying your podcast. While we both pretty much agree with your assessment of this episode, we wanted to make a note about the writers. You only talked about two of the three screenwriters (you missed Frederick Rappaport), but more importantly you didn't mention Michael Piller at all, who wrote the story for this episode. As you are probably aware, Piller is co-creator and executive producer of DS9 and Voyager, and has writing credits on what are considered to be some of the best TNG episodes (e.g. Best of Both Worlds). Which begs the question for this episode...WTF Michael Piller?? :)
Hey guys, been a long time listener (for the short time you been on) and I have to say that this is my absolute favorite podcast (which has nothing to do with my being real-life friends with Ryan). If nothing else, listening to this podcast has given me an excuse to revisit one of my all time favorite series. I just hope I can make it to the end this time (when Terry Farrell left, she took my love of the show with her).
Now, I've done some research myself and yes, this episode is universally panned by all viewers, but in spite of that (or maybe because of that) I feel that there are a few scenes which stand out which deserve some recognition.
I thought the good moments were the embarrassing ones. The allamaraine song was freaking hilarious and whether it was the characters or the actors themselves who were embarrassed, it makes sense because who wouldn’t be? Especially Sisko (who’s voice is both delicious and great), Mr. Big Tough guy, has to sing this stupid children’s rhyme and he just accepts it, in a tenor/soprano voice no less. And the whole “row, row, row your boat” chorus just added to it.
And you guys didn’t give enough credit to the Jake conversation, especially at the end where Sisko tries to shoehorn a “first-date” analogy into the whole first contact thing was freaking great! He’s a single father knowing that he has to educate his son about these things (especially since Ferengi values are not the kinds of values he wants his son eschewing) and he does it in this trying-really-hard but awkward way which was perfect. I think you guys mentioned something once about not having enough quality father-son moments and I thought that was a really good one.
Another scene I liked was where Jake went to Odo about his dad disappearing and Odo, in a rare display of empathy, acts like it’s all good and jokes around with Jake so he doesn’t upset him but soon as Jake is out the door, Odo goes into “constable” mode. I thought it was a great character moment and maybe one of the earliest examples that shows that Odo isn’t a complete hard-ass and that he can read people and people’s thoughts and feelings in consideration.
One scene that I really liked with Quark was when he makes the decision to take the “shorter” path. He was able to sway Odo to his plan because he was in his element, he knows games of chance, he knows how to calculate the probabilities of success, he knows when to fold'em and he knows when to hold’em (lol). Granted his gamble didn’t pay off, but what ferengi plan ever goes off without a hitch? But the passion and resolve that Quark used to convince Odo that he was making the right move was just awesome.
Another scene with Quark was the backpeddling he tried to pull after it was all over and Odo just calmly calling him out. Had me crackin’ up cause any scene that has Odo and Quark going back and forth is good stuff.
But that’s not to say that I’m blind to the many, many flaws of this episode. The sets were horrible (especially that cavern), the aliens were aliens because they had stuff written on their foreheads (don't forget the double-point sideburns), outside of rolling the dice and choosing paths, it seemed Quark had no control over his “pieces”, and to top it all off, it had the worst “it was all a dream” ending. So yeah, it was bad……really bad, but it did have some real jewels in there and I think it would’ve been enough to bring it up a point or two.
You guys are doing a great job with the podcast and it's great hearing your opinions and takes on each episode every week.
And thanks for the shout-out, and try to find the answer to that question because it has been bugging me for over 15 years! Good luck guys!
PS Ferengis rule!
Now, I've done some research myself and yes, this episode is universally panned by all viewers, but in spite of that (or maybe because of that) I feel that there are a few scenes which stand out which deserve some recognition.
I thought the good moments were the embarrassing ones. The allamaraine song was freaking hilarious and whether it was the characters or the actors themselves who were embarrassed, it makes sense because who wouldn’t be? Especially Sisko (who’s voice is both delicious and great), Mr. Big Tough guy, has to sing this stupid children’s rhyme and he just accepts it, in a tenor/soprano voice no less. And the whole “row, row, row your boat” chorus just added to it.
And you guys didn’t give enough credit to the Jake conversation, especially at the end where Sisko tries to shoehorn a “first-date” analogy into the whole first contact thing was freaking great! He’s a single father knowing that he has to educate his son about these things (especially since Ferengi values are not the kinds of values he wants his son eschewing) and he does it in this trying-really-hard but awkward way which was perfect. I think you guys mentioned something once about not having enough quality father-son moments and I thought that was a really good one.
Another scene I liked was where Jake went to Odo about his dad disappearing and Odo, in a rare display of empathy, acts like it’s all good and jokes around with Jake so he doesn’t upset him but soon as Jake is out the door, Odo goes into “constable” mode. I thought it was a great character moment and maybe one of the earliest examples that shows that Odo isn’t a complete hard-ass and that he can read people and people’s thoughts and feelings in consideration.
One scene that I really liked with Quark was when he makes the decision to take the “shorter” path. He was able to sway Odo to his plan because he was in his element, he knows games of chance, he knows how to calculate the probabilities of success, he knows when to fold'em and he knows when to hold’em (lol). Granted his gamble didn’t pay off, but what ferengi plan ever goes off without a hitch? But the passion and resolve that Quark used to convince Odo that he was making the right move was just awesome.
Another scene with Quark was the backpeddling he tried to pull after it was all over and Odo just calmly calling him out. Had me crackin’ up cause any scene that has Odo and Quark going back and forth is good stuff.
But that’s not to say that I’m blind to the many, many flaws of this episode. The sets were horrible (especially that cavern), the aliens were aliens because they had stuff written on their foreheads (don't forget the double-point sideburns), outside of rolling the dice and choosing paths, it seemed Quark had no control over his “pieces”, and to top it all off, it had the worst “it was all a dream” ending. So yeah, it was bad……really bad, but it did have some real jewels in there and I think it would’ve been enough to bring it up a point or two.
You guys are doing a great job with the podcast and it's great hearing your opinions and takes on each episode every week.
And thanks for the shout-out, and try to find the answer to that question because it has been bugging me for over 15 years! Good luck guys!
PS Ferengis rule!
Thanks for the comment Ricardo, we appreciate the comments of thinking fans like yourself, and yes when Farrell left she took a piece of all of us with her, but hold true! The end of the series is a great payoff for years of loyalty!
Many of the things you mentioned here we covered in the podcast already (allamarine, father-son chat etc), but as far as Odo showing some empathy...well I have this sterotype of Odo in my head that somehow doesn't totally fit into this season so far. Odo has shown emotion, mercy and empathy on more occasions then I would like to admit in the first season. You see I am in love with the hard-nosed, 'my way or the highway' Odo in my memory. Heck if you remember in our first episode he was my pick for favorite character of the series!
As far as Quark making the right decision...well I thought it was totally undermined by the grovelling he did. In the past we have seen great examples of Quark and his 'lobes' for business and reading people in situations. This was probably a minor example. I couldn't saw to someone "Oh if you really want to see Quark work his skills you NEED to see the scene from 'Move Along Home'" ....the same goes for the back and forth with him and Odo at the end.
So basically there are much better examples of all the so called 'good points' in this episode found in other shows this season.
As far as your Ferengi head wrap question goes:
"Ferengi military personnel wore uniforms that underwent a major change in style between 2364 and 2365. Many Ferengi males wore a headdress which consisted of a cloth wrapped around the back of the head. The name and purpose of this item was unknown. It may be significant that after Nog and Rom joined Starfleet and the Bajoran Militia respectively, they wore headdresses in materials and colors that matched their uniforms."
There seems to be no set rule to the head wrap. At this point it seems to be a fashion choice and nothing more.
Thanks for your loyalty to the podcast. We appreciate all our listeners.
Many of the things you mentioned here we covered in the podcast already (allamarine, father-son chat etc), but as far as Odo showing some empathy...well I have this sterotype of Odo in my head that somehow doesn't totally fit into this season so far. Odo has shown emotion, mercy and empathy on more occasions then I would like to admit in the first season. You see I am in love with the hard-nosed, 'my way or the highway' Odo in my memory. Heck if you remember in our first episode he was my pick for favorite character of the series!
As far as Quark making the right decision...well I thought it was totally undermined by the grovelling he did. In the past we have seen great examples of Quark and his 'lobes' for business and reading people in situations. This was probably a minor example. I couldn't saw to someone "Oh if you really want to see Quark work his skills you NEED to see the scene from 'Move Along Home'" ....the same goes for the back and forth with him and Odo at the end.
So basically there are much better examples of all the so called 'good points' in this episode found in other shows this season.
As far as your Ferengi head wrap question goes:
"Ferengi military personnel wore uniforms that underwent a major change in style between 2364 and 2365. Many Ferengi males wore a headdress which consisted of a cloth wrapped around the back of the head. The name and purpose of this item was unknown. It may be significant that after Nog and Rom joined Starfleet and the Bajoran Militia respectively, they wore headdresses in materials and colors that matched their uniforms."
There seems to be no set rule to the head wrap. At this point it seems to be a fashion choice and nothing more.
Thanks for your loyalty to the podcast. We appreciate all our listeners.
Well, I have to disagree on this one -- I loved this episode. Not one of the series finest, but certainly one of season one's most fun episodes. I laughed from start to finish, and thought the (SPOILER) "It was just a game!" punchline was very funny.
This isn't a great episode, nor is it a smart episode...but it's fun. I had a good time with this one.
This isn't a great episode, nor is it a smart episode...but it's fun. I had a good time with this one.
posted by: Krazy Joe on Thu, 10/1 11:13 AM EDT
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